- [Interpreter] Hi, now I'll be talking with Stephanie Linda about deaf interpreters, as she has a wealth of knowledge in that area with lots of experience. - Thanks for coming, Steph. So I've got a few questions I wanted to ask. What do deaf interpreters do? - Well, a deaf interpreters job can mean many different things. It really depends on their skills, their lived experiences, the need to work between Auslan and non-conventional sign language, and that's for someone perhaps who moved to Australia from another country and they may not yet be fluent in Auslan. There's plenty of examples. - Perhaps, they could work with deaf person who's really young and also not fluent in Auslan because of their age. Or on the opposite end of the spectrum, working with an older deaf person who may finger spell more than using conventional signs. And we know that people don't sign like that anymore so Auslan interpreters may struggle with that. - So there's a large group of people that deaf interpreters can work with. Perhaps someone having a mental health episode who may not be presenting or signing as they normally would. So non-conventional sign language can cover many different things. Say if we had a deaf person from Saudi Arabia who's fluent in their sign language, would we call them a non-conventional sign language user? No, in that situation, we would refer to that as another sign language. - Because it's not non-conventional. Non-conventional is when somebody signs in a way that is not the same as the other members of the Australian deaf community. They may use idiosyncratic and unusual signs. - Perhaps the person from Saudi Arabia could be fluent in their sign language but would not be fluent in Auslan. So in that area, you may need to call upon a deaf interpreter who is fluent in Saudi Arabian sign. But back to your question before, for non-conventional sign language users we would use deaf interpreters. And there's other areas they can work in, whether that's translating from written English into Auslan or interpreting it into a non-conventional sign language suit the deaf person's needs. - Also it can include deaf-blind interpreting, whether it's a visual frame or tactile interpreting. Deaf interpreters themselves must be fluent in Auslan and they should be competent in English as well. That way they can work on sight translation of English documents and understanding the wider community. They could also be fluent in another sign language or a pigeon language and that way they can communicate with non-conventional sign language users with mime and gesture as well. - It's important that they've grown up within the deaf community and that way they know how they can code switch and make sure that they can interpret in different ways for different deaf people. Then to become a deaf interpreter, should a deaf person travel first or what skills do they need to be an interpreter? Do they need to be multilingual? - Well, good communication skills is essential. Traveling isn't a must but in a perfect world, would be great if they could meet other deaf people outside of Australia. But it's important that they've grown up in the deaf community and they're really a part of the deaf community, where they've met children, adults, elderly deaf people. It's funny 'cause we know now that the deaf club doesn't exist in Melbourne like it use to. - So some of our younger deaf community may never come into contact with an older deaf person. And some people may not know how to communicate with them. Deaf interpreters should grow up within the deaf community and know how to communicate with all deaf people. - Yeah, when you're talking about the deaf club, I remember my parents, whenever they received a letter, they could go in and have a friend explain it to them. And now it doesn't exist as much but they would be hesitant to let a deaf interpreter do it now but it's the same thing isn't it. - Yeah, the same thing happened in at schools. Or you'd go shopping with a group of friends and there'd always be someone that would take on that role. I think we all have a deaf interpreter inside of us anyway. I know some deaf people are hesitant and don't like the idea of having a deaf interpreter with them. But sometimes I don't realise that deaf interpreters can be used in different ways. Like you said before, in schools or just having another avenue for information to be interpreted to them. How do we change that attitude? Well, I've used deaf interpreters myself when I was living in Cambodia because obviously I'm not Cambodian. I didn't grow up there. So sometimes there would be a few things that I didn't understand. The way they would sign. Maybe I was signing unusually to the people that I was communicating with. There was one deaf Cambodian who was fantastic with the way that they explained everything and they way they acted as a deaf interpreter. For me, it was easy to understand. I think throughout different periods of our lives I've used deaf interpreters. - A friend of mine went over to America and he was telling me about the deaf community there who loved using deaf interpreters. Mainly for the reason of comfort. When they'd gone to hospital and they'd had a surgery, waking up from the anaesthetic. It was much easier for them to use a deaf interpreter. No fault against the ASL interpreters but it was just harder for them to put in the effort to understand the information. And I thought, wow, I really like that attitude. The same if someone was to have a stroke. Perhaps before-hand they may have been a conventional sign language user but after a stroke their production of Auslan may be limited and a deaf interpreter'd be really helpful for that read back. I think the attitude now is perhaps starting to shift because it is our right to have that comfort and to not have to put in the extra effort to reinterpret what the interpreter's saying. And sometimes deaf people will help the interpreter by signing in a way that's not natural to make it easier for them. But it's our right to sign how we want to sign. - Sometimes interpreters need to work with deaf interpreters and work together so I can be myself and sign how I want to. And another I wanted to say about that, that the deaf community has the right to request a deaf interpreter when they want one. They can ask an agency to provide a deaf interpreter. Or ask the Auslan interpreter to work with a deaf interpreter with them. That way I can express myself as natural and as comfortable as possible. I completely agree. - You know I worked as a deaf interpreter myself. Unfortunately I was injured on my left arm. And I requested a deaf interpreter for the doctor's appointment because I could not sign comfortably without causing any pain. The agency, when they got the request, they didn't know what to do. They didn't understand why I would want a deaf interpreter because I work as one. And I had to explain to them my reasoning behind wanting a deaf interpreter. But because it was such last notice, I had to go to the appointment with another interpreter, that wasn't deaf, and it was really hard for me to communicate without being in any pain. - In a way that they could understand me. So I think it's both the deaf community and the agencies that need to have a better understanding of this. It's not only the right of the deaf person to ask for a deaf interpreter. - I think, Auslan interpreters, as well, need to be aware of their limits. Working alone can be really hard and it's important to know when is the right time to ask for a deaf interpreter to work together as tandems. And that way they can both achieve the goal that they've set out to. We know interpreters work in many different contexts and neither the deaf nor Auslan interpreter can know everything. - We know the deaf community is so diverse with their language styles. Where as the wider community all speak the same standard of English. Everybody is exposed to English on television, radios, newspapers that all have the same standard of English. Whereas the deaf community is different. - There is some people that may not have mixed with other deaf people. They could be socially isolated. Their language could be frozen from when they last had contact with signing at school. New interpreters, or those that haven't grown up within the deaf community may struggle and sometimes need to call upon a deaf interpreter so they can achieve the best outcome and provide that access to communication for the community. At the same time, deaf interpreters do need to work with the Auslan interpreters. - Sometime Auslan interpreters may know about a particular context. They may have worked there before or they may know the deaf person. They may know the deaf person more than the deaf interpreter. So it's important to work on your colleague's strengths and weaknesses and work together. Great, I'd really like to know more about deaf-blind interpreting. - Can you tell me about that? Working as a deaf-blind interpreter involves a certain degree of contact with the deaf-blind person. That could mean working as a tactile interpreter, hand-over-hand signing. Or signing in a smaller, visual space depending on their field of vision. Sometimes you may need to guide the deaf-blind person you're working with. And now there's also the inclusion of haptics, which is how you can describe what's going on in a space onto the deaf-blind person's body. And there's also social haptics, if people are nodding you can tap on their arm. If people are laughing, you can scratch on their arm to let them know the responses of the people they're talking to. And that way they get that feedback of what's happening and that's really important for communication. For meetings or conferences, there would be a group of people in the audience. You would need a platform interpreter. - The deaf interpreter would then copy what's being signed and interpreter it whether that's via tactile or visual frame interpreting, depending on the again the person's level of vision. - So does that meant the deaf interpreter would mirror what's being signed or what should they do when in that situation? - Well, of course, it depends on the client they're working with. Platform interpreters, I think, would have a really hard job. Because they have to present that message to everybody in the room including deaf interpreters they're working with. And as a deaf interpreter, I would need to make sure that I understand the person who I'm working with. Whether it's tactile or it's the complete deaf-blind manual alphabet in their hands. So I really need to make sure that I know how they receive, how they prefer to receive their information. Whether they would prefer it to be more literal or more free Auslan style. - If a Auslan interpreter and deaf interpreter arrived at a job together, perhaps a mental health booking, and they've never worked together before. Do you have any tips in that situation? Well, it's really hard because every situation is different. It depends on where, who the deaf person is, the team arrangements. Sometimes the deaf interpreter will just be there to monitor and to intervene and clarify when required. Where in other aspects, a deaf interpreter may interpret in both directions. From Auslan into non-conventional sign language and back. Or they may just work in one direction. - I think when you first starting working with your tandem interpreter it's important to keep an open mind and to ask if they've worked with a deaf person before. And to work out how you can best help each other and work together to get this communication. Maybe if neither of you have worked with a deaf person before, you may need to use a bit of trial and error. - Maybe the Auslan interpreter first and then the deaf interpreter. It's so hard. There's not one size that fits all. Well, how can an Auslan interpreter work with a deaf interpreter? I know that sometimes some Auslan interpreters may think it's reflection on their skill if they need to work with a deaf interpreter. How do we resolve that situation? - I think at the end of the day, it's the deaf community's right to request a deaf interpreter if they want one. Or even the professionals that are working the situation that may have had experiences in the past of miscommunication or Auslan interpreters who have found that there's that barrier to comprehension with a deaf person. Perhaps the deaf person doesn't sign a standard Auslan other people sign. - Maybe there's been experiences in the past of Auslan interpreters misunderstanding them and having miscommunications. As we said before, there's various reasons why deaf people may require a deaf interpreter. Whether it's social isolation, no contact with Auslan since they were at school or they may have other physical limitations like a disability that can impact their production of signs. Also if someone's experiencing a poor mental health episode, it can impair their cognition and their production of sign. - So it's important to achieve great communication is to work together. And it's not for a deaf interpreter to take over the role of an Auslan interpreter. Because I can't do it myself. I think if we work together, that can make the best team. And that means the deaf community can then get access to the treatment or what they need in an easier way. I really like the way you said that. That you're not there to take over from the Auslan interpreter, that you need them as well. - 'Cause I am aware that there could be some concerns for job security for Auslan interpreters. Well, we know that Auslan interpreter's job is to work from Auslan to English and we need to work together. Because I cannot get English in another way in those situations, where I'm there for the other side. - From the Auslan to the non-conventional signing. We need each other. We spoke about the different areas deaf interpreters can work in. We said medical appointments, what's some other areas? We normally see the triad combination in a discussion type of appointment. That's where it's more commonly used. - Another area deaf interpreters work in is for more emergency situations. Whether it's a police interview, an appearance at court, sometimes in hospitals as well in real crisis. When now we're seeing deaf interpreters being used more as platform interpreters. If we have people coming from overseas, we'll have a deaf interpreter interpret. Also for any media release, emergency services, we're seeing more deaf interpreters being used there. - Also for the weather updates. And also perhaps those that have an NDIS package. A deaf person may want a deaf interpreter to translate information for them. That's another area they could work in, sight translations. Interpreters are used a lot in crisis situation but there's areas in everyday life that I think deaf interpreters would be perfect to work in. - I'd like to say thank you so much for your time, Steph. - No worries.